Lots of personal care and household products are not tested on animals... so that's proof right there that they don't have to be.

As for drugs and medical procedures, I believe the risks of testing should be taken by those who can give meaningful and informed consent--that is, mentally competent humans.

Whether I'd volunteer depends on the situation.

/\ You think?

Vivisectionists cannot be talked about as sentient ordinary human beings because they are not! Their job is to cause suffering and I wouldn't be surprised if they do get a kick out of that! Certain people enter these 'professions'... they are evil and dangerous sorts; they are not worthy of respect!

Animal testing is absolutely not acceptable.

Medical testing ... yes I think thats acceptable in some (not all) cases, if they can save lifes from testing something on an animal then sure, go for it, although they're now developing computer models to test on, so once we can move onto those and make sure that they give accurate results then I think that will be a better solution.

Beauty prodcuts, make up, and house hold cleaning products are not essential or acceptable in my opinion, and I try to buy products that haven't been, theres natural ways of cleaning and making yourself look good that are just as good as animal tested ones and chemical ones. My boyfriend lent me a peta dvd which was pimarily about things like kfc which is actually awful, but there was also a section on animal testing and one woman said "do we really need another hair spray?". Enough said on that one.

As to if I would volenteer, well I must admit I've been put of by the numerous tests that have gone wrong, like with the people recently that suffered kidney damage I think, so I'm not sure on that one.

Oh, and the one thing I was looking forward to in A-Level biology before I changed subjects was dissection, just because it would be fascinating. I think again educational purposes is fine, I mean theres people that leave their bodies to medical research for university studies, so I think it's fitting that at a lower level of biology you look at a small animal, it does help teach you. I mean you have to carry out autopsies on both people and animals if you go into that sort of profession so you have to have practised on an animal or human before hand.

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How are humans and animals different? We can think, plan, dream, improve ourselves. The worst criminal has the potential to become a worthwhile human being and improve his life and the lives of others. The best dog will always be a dog. And I love my dog. The fact that you're so upset at the idea of animal testing shows you're superior to animals. Do the lions in the jungle care about animal testing?

Polio vaccine, flu vaccine, organ transplants, rabies vaccines are just a few of the important medical milestones that have used animal testing. Perhaps we insist too much on animal testing of household cleaners, but it were YOUR two year old that drank a bottle of cleaner and spasms, you probably wouldn't be so concerned.

Computer modeling can't completely replace animal testing. Where will you get the information to build the model if you don't test?

Argh! Some uninformed people annoy me, too.

griselda wrote on Nov 1^st, 2008 at 7:23am:



Only for A-Level and Uni when people choose to do it to further their education and knowledge in the subject, of both animals and humans. Clearly when you select biology for an A-Level and then for Uni your doing it because you want to go into that sort of profession and you do need practise and to see everything first hand. It's usually rodents, rats and creatures like that, or occasionally the organs of larger creatures like cows, especially heart and lungs so you can see how they work. Of course when I did the taster day for A-Level we were told that it is up to us if we choose to actually dissect because of our personal beliefes, if I'd have gone ahead with it then I would have. Theres no subsitute between looking at pictures and models and then the real thing.  

As to where, I don't know, I didn't research it any further because it wasn't a career I wanted anymore.

I know that back in my mums day they would get the organs from the butchers themselves which is good because it's using every part of the animal, nowadays the school orders them in for everyone, I'd imagine again from animals who've already been killed for meat.

But I believe the small animals are breed/bread? (can't spell that goddamn word) for dissection the same as animal testing, so thats probably something you could use in your arguement against me lol.

But yeah, in my opinion for educational purposes it's fine, I don't think it's particulary a power thing, just if your purely interested in biology then it's to further your knowledge, I know I was interested in doing it, the one thing I regret about not doing biology.

Then again I can get a lot more messy in art =P And draw some equally disgusting things, I do love my project.

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I don't know what they dissect in Britain, but in American high school biology, the classic animal to dissect is a frog.  No one kills them for meat.

My high school biology class skipped frog dissection.  But I took an optional marine science course, and they had us dissect fish.  For that, we were asked to buy them from a fish market, where they were fresh off the boat and hadn't been gutted or cleaned.  So that was using something that had already been killed for meat.

Oh, 'cos that makes everything all right! That is really heartless reasoning. They can still feel pain and have thought. Does purpose in life really correlate to direction in life? Just because their supposed purpose in life is to die doesn't make it any worse.

DreamingDragonfly wrote on Nov 1^st, 2008 at 5:44pm:


That makes a lot of sense!

I have never dissected an animal but I stopped science lessons at age 16, I don't know if it's really that common and it definitely isn't compulsary; lot of pupil power in these schools - they will never make you do anything you don't want to!
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Lab rats ahhhh. Imagine opening a package full of mousey cadavers when youre expecting a shiny new textbook.

Sympathy and kindness to animals is one of the fundamental principles of all divine religions. My viewpoint is a mixture of both views expressed by our friends in PT.
I do not agree with the suffering of animals and at the same time I cannot wink at the benefits of using animals in medical researches including Vivisection. I believe that in the future there would be other facilities for medical researchers rather than to use animals. At the present time, I believe the animals must be anaesthetized and have to be carried out in a way that they do not suffer.

Hello BlueEyedBelle

I agree with all of your views and want to add that as a veterinary surgeon, confirm that most of the researched results initially take use in animals and for animal treatments in veterinary practice. I have done a series of these tests with laboratory animals but later I could compensate them by treating animals and doing surgical operations with the medicines and methods which were the products of the endeavours of those who had tried to find some means to reduce the suffering of their fellow-creatures and animals.  

I don't think anyone can deny that this profession attracts a high proportion of sinister sorts of people (more so than say, teaching)?

And for many of these vivisectionists it is frivolous torture! They do actually enjoy it! I wish I had been to a lab and could confirm this, but I have just read first-hand accounts and a lot of Coleman... They become desensitised after a short time in such environments and then, eventually, they will bask in the suffering of these poor creatures. People who can so easily inflict cruelty on beasts cannot possibly expect to be respected, just because this suffering is in the glory of the great god 'Science'.

I try not to think bady of them, but if I ever caught one god knows what I'd do! Even our VC, a kindly man, wishes to see them crushed by lorries on the M25.